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tripathySo, yeah, I was very disappointed over Obama's statement about abortion and the health care plan. I realize that he wants to try to shut up the wingnuts in order to get this thing through, but it also feels like this particular issue is being thrown under the bus. His having said that now will make it harder to push through change in the future (if he even wants to), because then people will be able to cling to his statement and scream YOU SAID YOU WOULDN'T CHANGE THINGS. So I posted about my disappointment on Facebook.
My original post on Facebook:
Obama: "And one more misunderstanding I want to clear up: Under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortion, and federal conscience laws will remain in place." Just one letdown after another, eh, Obama? "Conscience", my ass. Replace that with "control over women's bodies" and it sounds about right.
Cue some back-and-forth with a couple of Paul's male friends (my friends know better than to touch this subject with me) about how Obama needs to take baby steps and just do whatever it takes to push health care reform through. Annoying, but whatever.
And then this:
"I'm pro-Choice too, but most in the US aren't. And he's not making it illegal, just that the state won't pay for it. Personally, I think it isn't a bad idea, except in certain situations. Rape victims should definitively get it paid, but those that sleep around and get pregnant 3 time a year, or those that get an abortion because it isn't the right time in their busy life, I believe they should pay for it."
I was almost shaking with anger after reading such disgusting tripe posted on my page. You're pro-choice, buddy? Really? With that kind of underlying attitude? Impressive how you can be politically pro-choice but still have an incredibly misogynistic view of it.
My carefully edited response (since Facebook is not like the rest of the internet for me, and I don't want all these people I know in RL to see me swearing like I've gone off the deep end):
"Honestly, I am glad that you are pro-choice. BUT.
You are wandering into very dangerous territory by posting what is akin to "those sluts deserve to have to pay" here. So what if a woman chooses to sleep around? Men sleep around without this consequence and hell if anyone makes them help pay for the abortion that they helped cause.
People who have made the choice to smoke can still get insurance to pay for their cancer treatments. Someone who blows out their knees playing a sport that they choose to play still has insurance cover their treatments. It is nobody's business what a woman's past is or why she wants the abortion, and the idea that she should be punished for having sex by having to pay for the result (with no equivalent punishment for the men) really gets on my nerves and I find it upsetting. I doubt I'll change your mind on this, but I can ask you to never mention it here again.
The federal conscience laws are just the ultimate kick in the face. Not only should a woman have to pay for her abortion, but she may not even be able to find someone to perform it for her? Or she may be searching for the morning-after pill (which she will also pay for herself) so that it never comes to the point where she actually needs an abortion and she can be denied that as well?
A giant FU to that."
What I really wanted to say:
"Fuck you sideways, asshole. You think you have the right to decide which woman "deserves" a free abortion and which doesn't, based on your derogatory ideas of the value of her life? That she doesn't want the baby is the only reason anyone needs to know. Her need for an abortion is equal to any other woman's need for one, from a pregnant teenager to a single mother on welfare to a busy career woman to a woman who just wanted to fuck around. Why? Because IT IS NONE OF ANYONE'S GODDAMNED BUSINESS. And it sure as hell isn't up to a man, who will never know pregnancy, to decide.
That's impressively misogynistic for someone who claims to be pro-choice. I'd congratulate you for such a feat, but unfortunately there are way too many more like you. It's really just sad to know that although you will not stop women from getting abortions, you will judge them and look down on them if they don't fit your image of a "deserving" woman. This attitude NEEDS TO CHANGE."
I met this guy once at a party last year and have not actually spoken to him since. As one of Paul's friends, he doesn't get the leeway that any of my actual friends might. If he says anything further that isn't an apology, I'm going to delete his comments and defriend him. I may have a policy of never deleting anything on LJ and elsewhere on the internet, but Facebook is for my RL. It's supposed to be a different life there, and I'm not putting up with that shit.
As always, anti-choice comments are not welcome here. It's something that everyone here should already know, but I just wanted to make sure that that's clear.
My original post on Facebook:
Obama: "And one more misunderstanding I want to clear up: Under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortion, and federal conscience laws will remain in place." Just one letdown after another, eh, Obama? "Conscience", my ass. Replace that with "control over women's bodies" and it sounds about right.
Cue some back-and-forth with a couple of Paul's male friends (my friends know better than to touch this subject with me) about how Obama needs to take baby steps and just do whatever it takes to push health care reform through. Annoying, but whatever.
And then this:
"I'm pro-Choice too, but most in the US aren't. And he's not making it illegal, just that the state won't pay for it. Personally, I think it isn't a bad idea, except in certain situations. Rape victims should definitively get it paid, but those that sleep around and get pregnant 3 time a year, or those that get an abortion because it isn't the right time in their busy life, I believe they should pay for it."
I was almost shaking with anger after reading such disgusting tripe posted on my page. You're pro-choice, buddy? Really? With that kind of underlying attitude? Impressive how you can be politically pro-choice but still have an incredibly misogynistic view of it.
My carefully edited response (since Facebook is not like the rest of the internet for me, and I don't want all these people I know in RL to see me swearing like I've gone off the deep end):
"Honestly, I am glad that you are pro-choice. BUT.
You are wandering into very dangerous territory by posting what is akin to "those sluts deserve to have to pay" here. So what if a woman chooses to sleep around? Men sleep around without this consequence and hell if anyone makes them help pay for the abortion that they helped cause.
People who have made the choice to smoke can still get insurance to pay for their cancer treatments. Someone who blows out their knees playing a sport that they choose to play still has insurance cover their treatments. It is nobody's business what a woman's past is or why she wants the abortion, and the idea that she should be punished for having sex by having to pay for the result (with no equivalent punishment for the men) really gets on my nerves and I find it upsetting. I doubt I'll change your mind on this, but I can ask you to never mention it here again.
The federal conscience laws are just the ultimate kick in the face. Not only should a woman have to pay for her abortion, but she may not even be able to find someone to perform it for her? Or she may be searching for the morning-after pill (which she will also pay for herself) so that it never comes to the point where she actually needs an abortion and she can be denied that as well?
A giant FU to that."
What I really wanted to say:
"Fuck you sideways, asshole. You think you have the right to decide which woman "deserves" a free abortion and which doesn't, based on your derogatory ideas of the value of her life? That she doesn't want the baby is the only reason anyone needs to know. Her need for an abortion is equal to any other woman's need for one, from a pregnant teenager to a single mother on welfare to a busy career woman to a woman who just wanted to fuck around. Why? Because IT IS NONE OF ANYONE'S GODDAMNED BUSINESS. And it sure as hell isn't up to a man, who will never know pregnancy, to decide.
That's impressively misogynistic for someone who claims to be pro-choice. I'd congratulate you for such a feat, but unfortunately there are way too many more like you. It's really just sad to know that although you will not stop women from getting abortions, you will judge them and look down on them if they don't fit your image of a "deserving" woman. This attitude NEEDS TO CHANGE."
I met this guy once at a party last year and have not actually spoken to him since. As one of Paul's friends, he doesn't get the leeway that any of my actual friends might. If he says anything further that isn't an apology, I'm going to delete his comments and defriend him. I may have a policy of never deleting anything on LJ and elsewhere on the internet, but Facebook is for my RL. It's supposed to be a different life there, and I'm not putting up with that shit.
As always, anti-choice comments are not welcome here. It's something that everyone here should already know, but I just wanted to make sure that that's clear.
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(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-18 03:22 am (UTC)Does this misogynistic creep know any actual women? Much less women who will admit to having had an abortion? Any woman I know who had an abortion had a very good reason to do so. It's not "I won't be able to wear my bikini this summer or take that job promotion with the 60+ hours required". Even if a woman decides to get an abortion reflexively, because she's discovered that she is pregnant and doesn't want a child? That's good enough. Whatever her reason is, it's *her* reason.
If this fellow wants his type of law passed, I propose a parallel law. For the women where the government won't pay (because they're careless about birth control/ambitious/whatever stupid reason he claims), if the woman doesn't want the child the biological father gets it. Automatically, no excuses, no right to refusal. Let's see how the prospect of having his entire life irrevocably changed overnight makes this fellow feel. Blame the woman? Oops, no. There are two sides to birth control, after all. If he doesn't like it, he can pay for the abortion out of his own pocket. I'm willing to wager that passing such a law would instantaneously insure free, anonymous access to abortion with no questions asked. :D
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-18 03:40 am (UTC)Married with three young kids, actually. And he likely believes that his kids are a miracle and a gift to him, and that likely makes him a loving father to them, which is fine. But on the other hand, it's the attitude that everyone must feel the same way he does about the power of creation of life that makes him a misogynistic asshole.
See, I'd love for the kid to be foisted upon the father (not just the baby itself, but he should have to experience pregnancy and birth!), but a child should never be a punishment for anyone. They deserve better than parent(s) who never wanted them. There really isn't anything we can do those guys aside from get them to give up some of their money to the kid, but it's still nowhere near fair.
What would be awesome would be if each possible pregnancy had a 50-50 chance of being implanted in either the male or the female. I should think that there would be a lot less people willing to play Russian Pregnancy Roulette then. Ah, I can dream.
If you haven't read my most recent post with his latest reply, check that one out. He's not only misogynistic, but also heartless with respect to the suffering of others. Great guy.
*totally isn't late.*
Date: 2010-02-03 09:36 am (UTC)Re: *totally isn't late.*
Date: 2010-02-03 02:33 pm (UTC)Not that it's impossible for a woman to change her mind, but I think that the ones who are hardline childfree and not going to change shouldn't be too hard to differentiate from the ones who are just going through a phase where they don't like kids and/or want to focus on their own lives for a while without having to worry about getting pregnant. Personally I support the childfree all the way on this. This is not a judgment on them, but just a statement of fact: If they don't want to have kids, then everyone would be better off if they didn't (especially the potential kids). Kids need parents who want and love them and who are ready to devote themselves to raising the kid properly, and forcing a child onto a childfree couple would just be unfair for everyone.
In short, the more freedom and the less judgment, the better. But you live in America...:(
Re: *totally isn't late.*
Date: 2010-02-04 01:29 am (UTC)Man, if I had even just a penny for every time someone told me I'd change my mind someday....
Apparently, applying the term "squick" to the thought of being pregnant myself is utterly beyond comprehension for most people.